Impossible alignment with repeated wall patterns?

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    Steven Smith

    Did you take a picture from further back to view the whole wall at once.

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    Mike Simone

    This is in a tight bathroom and the patterns are the same on 3 of the 4 walls in a square box... I cant get them all in the same picture haha

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    Steven Smith

    It's hard to say from just the 2 screen shots, but the best generic advice I could give on a hard subject like that would be take more pictures (for a small bathroom 200-400) combine multiple techniques. I would start in one corner and shoot diagonal 

    then shoot the room in a parallel straight on almost grid pattern

    And then finally what I would call the pano where you stand in one spot at a time and take pictures overlapping about a third from the last at every angle you deem necessary. Up, down, and side to side. I found a good example on the internet

    Not all the photos will stitch, but enough will. Multiple passes at varying heights will also help, as photos all at the same height won't provide much on the height of subjects in the photos. 

    Here is a couple of rooms I just shot the other day. 

    as you can see, I will use maybe one pano in the middle of a squarish room where on longer rooms I might shoot 2 or 3. 

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    Mike Simone

    Well, I did three separate heights in the room in a grid pattern. Normally this would never be a problem but the wall has a repeating pattern so the software is getting very confused. I had taken 220 photos and I dont think I can solve this  with patterns similar on three separate walls..

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    Steven Smith

    The only other thing I could think of is a higher megapixel camera that could resolve the imperfections in the pattern like dust and scratches, and using a tripod so that motion blur doesn't destroy those fine details. A wide angle lens might also fix this problem, as it can capture unique features in one shot...ie bathtub window and toilet. 

    With enough trial and error I think a smart phone could do it but not worth the time. 2 weeks on a bathroom not fun, but 2 weeks on a bird bath, a garden gnome, wooden chair, a person sleeping ( so the don't move ) and a cool bug is a lot more fun

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    Mike Simone

    Well, I used a tripod and a fairly good DSLR. The problem is the software and not how I took the pictures.

    I don't think you understand, there is no camera that provides a 270 degree angle shot for 6 feet away.

    I'm hoping one of the devs can chime in, there are no imperfections in the pattern. The problem is that there the same patterns on three separate walls. And RC gets a little crazy trying to find a solution for the alignment.

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    Jonathan Tanant

    And what about putting some markers in the space to help RC a bit ? (there is now automatic markers in the last version !)

    You will have some editing after, or you could also shoot with and without markers and exclude the images with markers from texturing.

    What is your lens focal length ? For this kind of space I would recommend a 16mm eq on a full frame.

    More overlap will definitely help ! Take 1000 pictures if you need, and as Steven said, mix techniques. I would add the "random shooting" : just shoot handheld (yes, you will need to go a bit high ISO) at random positions and orientations all over the space (don't forget to change the height as well, close to the floor, close to the ceiling), and eventually RC will find the connections. It always does when you have enough pictures !

     

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    Steven Smith

    The smallest plainest bathroom I could find. With enough information captured ( either a high megapixel camera, or more photos ) even the most difficult subjects can be done. Look at the hose from the faucet. The dirt on it provided the features needed. It even got the plain solid white glossy toilet seat to my surprise. I did't bother with trying to get the whole room and shot as quick as possible.

    Model 

    https://sketchfab.com/models/53792b74d2f349218d9d3eed5e8cb735

    Source Pics

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KuZ4SmNZAmcyogwg2W2PsUCqojC1HHRg

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    Mike Simone

    Well our cottage is 2000 mi away from me right now :) so I cant add markers to scene. Honestly i feel  like I should just blur our the wallfor now with photoshop for the alignment and just use the real set after

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    Jonathan Tanant

    Try several alignment settings (sensitivity, overlap, max features...).

    You can also try to add control points (tie points), this should be easy on this pattern.

    And by the way, I can't find your alignement result, can you post some informations and screenshots ? how many components do you have ?

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    Jonathan Tanant

    And one thing you learn with photogrammetry is that in most cases you can't blame the software - but there is always room to improve your photographing skills and quality !

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    Götz Echtenacher

    My 50 cents:

    Other than changing the repeating pattern into a non-repeating (scratches, markers, newspaper pages or as suggested a wider angle), there is not much hope to solve this since it is unsolvable. If too much of one image has the repetitive pattern, RC will confuse them no matter what.

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    Mike Simone

    Agreed Gotz,

    I cant get a wide enough angle (As its impossible), so using markers or news papers at the time would be the only options for this type of reconstruction.

    Next step is to wait for a RC employee! and maybe blur the walls in photoshop somehow.

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    Götz Echtenacher

    The blurring might work, or why not mask it right away?

    A DEV won't be able to tell you more since this limitation is inherent to photogrammetry: repetitive patterns is a big no-no.

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    Jonathan Tanant

    Sorry I may be missing something but did you try to align your pictures ? Because I can't find anything related to your try in your post ??? 

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    Jonathan Tanant

    Really repetitive patterns are a no-go, but they rarely actually happen, because of dust, scratches, printing differences, lighting differences...

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    Mike Simone

    I've been trying to align my pictures with zero, 1 - 10+ control points. All with no luck because of the repeating wall pattern which is confusing RC. First i thought I didnt have enough pictures but that wasnt the case, its the repeating patterns in the wall as in the picture. They are all over the place in the bath room haha =/

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    Jonathan Tanant

    Ok, but what do you mean by "no luck" ? do you have results ? components ? how many ? how many cameras each ? we can help you but you need to share more of your results... "no luck" is just no precise at all as a result !

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    Jonathan Tanant

    the first step would be to put your pictures in RC, run a draft align and post a screenshot of what you get...

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    Götz Echtenacher

    One can see that there's an alignment from the screenshot with the (false) matches...

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    Jonathan Tanant

    yes, but if we had more informations we could maybe give some advices... for example, if the sensitivity was too high, I would try to lower it to try to avoid the false positives... And one of the false positives seems to be on a side of a picture, so maybe go from "low" overlap to "medium" or even "high" could help...

     

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    Jonathan Tanant

    did you try so extreme downscale settings (2, 3,or even 4) for your alignments ? it should eventually blur the pattern and still keep the main features... this is not guaranteed but this is worth a try.

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    Mike Simone

    I have tried all sorts of settings, overlap, detector sensitivity, but I have not tried down scaling. (There is also a masking feature which is new from the help menu. I will look into that as well.

    This is the only room I am having issues with and for obvious reasons. 

    Ill keep you posted if there are any other options such as masking that work.

    Thanks for the comments 

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    Götz Echtenacher

    The thought about downscaling struck me too!

    The good thing is, it can be done automatically within RC via preview or just adjusting the downsampling value (or downscaling?)...

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    Mike Simone

    Downscaling did not work =/ .. Ill see what else I can do without editing pictures... RC team? Any suggestions?

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    Steven Smith

    May I give it a go? Maybe upload to drop box or google drive

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    Mike Simone

    Sure, Ill upload it to google drive later today. This one is a doozy!

    Here are a few models I have recently created (Though I want to clean them up a lot so I can optimize them for VR)

    https://sketchfab.com/Chubert3/models

     

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    Steven Smith

    Great examples! Cleaning models for vr is something I need more practice at. I saw a guy on YouTube do his room and brought it into vr 1 to 1 it was really cool.
    https://youtu.be/NbW8pgAtwIU

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    Mike Simone

    https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1ntB2IN7-YY26aJLAq868CYHlpxs2JJKY

    Here are the photos

    It may be hard to tell the outline of the room so please use my 1 to 1 recreation of the outline below haha :)

     

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    Steven Smith

    Sorry, I've just gotten some new hardware and have been testing performance. I haven't forgotten. One thing that I see right off the bat is there is a lot of noise. From the exit data I can see that you are on a tripod with a shutter of a few seconds. Why not use iso 100?

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